Andrew Gray Podcast

Finding TRUE Purpose - What MEN Need to Know

Andrew Gray Season 12 Episode 2

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What happens when a man loses his sense of purpose? Join us in our latest episode as we explore this compelling question with our guests. Doug shares an insightful perspective that true purpose exists right here in the present moment. We contrast this with societal pressures and the relentless pursuit of more—whether it’s wealth, status, or an idyllic life showcased on social media. Understanding that purpose shouldn't be an external chase, but an intrinsic part of our daily lives, can radically change how we engage with the world around us.

Maintaining a balance between ambition and contentment is a real struggle for many, especially young men. We discuss actionable strategies to ensure high productivity without sacrificing personal satisfaction and well-being. From appreciating the simplicity of long drives to creating thoughtful long-term plans with a partner, we uncover how mutual support within relationships can play a pivotal role in sharing dreams and ambitions. Tune in to learn how to anchor yourself in the present while still aiming for future success.

Discover the transformative power of faith as Doug recounts his journey from a turbulent upbringing in wartime Germany to a life of joy and purpose in Australia. His spiritual awakening brought a newfound sense of playfulness and worship into his daily life, demonstrating that faith can harmonise productivity and joy. Hear how a relationship with a living God can help you balance life's goals with its inherent beauty, making your daily experiences both meaningful and fulfilling. Don't miss this heartfelt discussion on the profound impact of purpose and faith on men's lives.

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Speaker 1:

I want to talk about this idea of men needing purpose, having just confessed to the whole world the fact that I'm unhealthily driven by purpose. Men needing purpose. It's one of the struggles we see when men are just going through the motions or, like you say, they might have gone too far with chasing the stuff or they're caught up in a social media frenzy of trying to have someone else's life or whatever it is. Let's talk about that for a few moments. Mending purpose is that innate? Has it been put in there by the creator? Do we have a more important bond to purpose than the women do? What is your viewpoint on that whole deal? How big a deal is purpose to a man and what can we do to help men who maybe are struggling without that sense of purpose?

Speaker 1:

I mean, related to our first topic of dead men walking, I hear guys all the time I hate my job, you know, fighting with the wife, kids, and I hardly talk, barely scraping by paying my bills, and I'm fighting just for the right to go back to the job I hate again on Monday. That is so commonplace and what I hear in that is an absence of purpose. They're not going. I'm doing something I'm good at, or I love, or it's making a difference, doug, why don't you kick us off? Men need purpose, do they, do they not? Are we waxing lyrical about something we can live without?

Speaker 2:

I might throw a curveball, if that's all right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, do it.

Speaker 2:

I think we're indoctrinated into purpose, like we. You know we are geared up to produce. You know that's. You know the man provides for his family, the man gets the job, and I think it's been pushed away from us in that it's always out there. You know, john, you touched on it. You know the striving for the extra, the more money. You know the striving for the bigger house, and once you get the $100 million, you look at the guy who's got a billion and it's out there.

Speaker 2:

Same with social media. It's like this presentation of something that's outside of us, right, that's outside of us, right. And I think it's actually back to front that the reality is that the only thing that we have is this instant, right here, like we exist in this instant and it's healthy to strategise and to learn and to get skills and to produce, but my purpose only exists in this moment. So when I look at what is my purpose on this earth, I don't think anyone will give a rip in 100 years' time how much money I earned. You know there's… or how much hair you had, or how much hair I had, or how fit I was, or anything like that.

Speaker 1:

How good looking you were. What else can we add to the list?

Speaker 2:

So you come back to like how am I existing now? Like, am I actually…. So my purpose in this instance is am I existing now? Yeah, like, like, like. Am I actually so? So my purpose in this instance is is am I actually fully living? Like, do do I have access to the fullness of every individual that's in this room? Am I actually connecting as as well as I can to every individual in this room? Am I available to actually speak the truth? Murray, Michael, Michael, you touched on it. You know speaking the truth, Like, do we live in this presentation world where you know I wear, you know I bought a new shirt for this? You?

Speaker 1:

do it looks fantastic.

Speaker 2:

Like do I live at this superficial presentation level? Am I comparing myself with the neighbours and, you know, everyone else? Or am I actually grounded in this place of I exist? My purpose here is to benefit whoever comes across my path. My purpose here is to actually live my life to the fullest that I can live it, so to be emotionally engaged, to be physically engaged, to be engaged in joy. My purpose is that there's another generation coming behind me, that there's my kids, that there's young men and young women who are coming across my path, who are looking to you know someone to to to actually have us as a signpost.

Speaker 2:

It's like, am I that person or am I living in this superficial place and so bring it from this broad thing of I'm going to leave a legacy or I'm going to have 100 million bucks or I'm going to. You know what else am I doing? Living on Mars? It's like great if you've got an inclination towards that. You know, don't abort being productive, sure, but ground yourself in. Am I actually fully alive right now or have I sold myself to the lie and only half living, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, interesting. I definitely don't want to oversimplify what you just said, but is there a struggle that we're having between trying to live too often, too far in the future and that becomes the source of frustration? Yeah, dissatisfaction. That we're constantly looking for, instead of just I'm here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, I think. I mean I think Paul touched on it you know the whole comparison thing of looking over the fence and then being dissatisfied with who you are, and you know, I mean I look at these young studs here and it's like you know I could be satisfied dissatisfied Been called a stud before Marcus get that all the time, do you?

Speaker 2:

Well, like I could be dissatisfied with the fact that I'm ageing, right, you know, and then live a life that's shut down and closed off, because I'm comparing myself to these guys and it's like no way ever is that going to work. So I've got to sift through my mind and it's like, you know, admire these guys, you know, enjoy their youth and their enthusiasm and, at the same time, be wholly myself, you know, and be vital and alive. And you know age, be vital and alive. And you know ageing and actually continually, every moment bring to this world, you know, my purpose for existing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, great, I love it, Jeff. What's your thoughts? Purpose men.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, look, I think that men need to have a purpose, in the sense that they need to plug their story into a greater story. Your purpose to involve other people, yeah, and I think that if our purpose is a, you know, if we're driven by purpose to such an extent that we forsake everything else in pursuit of the purpose, then that's a bad purpose, Because, when all's said and done, the purpose needs to reach out to the people. That, first of all, that we're closest to and post a winner and want to achieve maximum, 100% efficiency, then we will miss out on a lot of things, because there are a lot of things in life that are totally inefficient. Love is inefficient. Taking a walk at lunchtime to let the vitamin D get into your skin and, just you know, to clear your mind. It can sometimes be inefficient when you're thinking I've got to do this, I've got to do that, and when your purpose gets into your veins so much that you would basically sacrifice everything on the altar of that purpose, then it's bad, it's gone too far.

Speaker 3:

Men, yes, we need a reason to get out of bed, but it doesn't need to be to earn a million dollars. The purpose can be. I need to get out of bed because I want to be a better example to my son, to show him how to get out of bed. You know your purpose. Can you know, in terms of your example to your immediate family? Lots of times we miss those things, the simple things that are really part of our purpose, because we're aiming for something bigger and we're like Mr Magoo you guys wouldn't know Mr Magoo, but Mr Magoo was blind and he used to drive a car right and he used to, just by sheer luck, you know, get through all this from A to B, but behind him was total chaos and he was just totally oblivious to the chaos that was behind him. You know, and sometimes if we are driven by a purpose that misses the people that are close to us, that we love, and we're driven by that to such an extent that we sacrifice those relationships and sacrifice those moments you know of going to your kids' sports games and stuff like that.

Speaker 3:

You know of going to your kids' sports games and stuff like that you know then I think that we've mistaken purpose for something that's a little bit I'm going to say evil, but it's probably too strong a word, but we've mistaken purpose for something that's a little bit off. Yeah, you know we've missed the mark. Yeah, we need to dial that back. I think, and say you know what my purpose is? To bring strength to my wife. It's to raise my kids to be the best that they can be, you know, and to help my mates. And that's purpose. Yeah, and that's purpose. Yeah, that's purpose, and it's achievable. You know, like if we constantly aim for the unachievable, we will constantly be disappointed and discouraged and be down on ourself all the time. Yeah, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Why do that? It's such a I think it's such a powerful and emotive subject and certainly by my observation, I think it's got lots of moving parts that are difficult for everyone to continually grasp. I'm fascinated by the fact that in today's world, again referencing these younger guys, here they are. I don't know if they personally feel it, these two, but they are oversaturated in the social media space right now, with it's almost become like a religion of productivity is the new religion for young men. You get your gym habits perfect and get your diary habits perfect and get your five-year plan perfect. And the interesting thing is there's an over-glorification of what is preached to be purpose, but the focal point is actually stuff that's pretty tedious and unimportant in the grand scheme, and so there's several weird dichotomies going on for people in the realm of what purpose is and do you need it and what does it actually look like. But again, I want to hear from you guys I don't know who's got the mic Questions, comments. Mark, you want to lead us off there with something? Go for it.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I'll have a question to Jeff about the comment I just made. And do you believe that before aiming for that purpose, the simple purposes around being there for your children and all the things that are less than the material things that we go after, that you need to have that foundation, that spiritual foundation? Because you know, this is probably a bit of a statement as well. Myself I find it very hard that if I'm not living the spiritual way of life, that going after the daily tasks become very, very difficult because all the gunk of fear, resentment, all these other things clog me up as a person. So I really need to have that spiritual way of life set first before I even contemplate doing that. Do you agree with that? Would you add on to that?

Speaker 3:

I 100% agree with what you're saying. I think that and my experience probably was the reverse of that is that, you know, when I was younger I was fairly highly driven. But at some point in your life you realise I don't know when I can't sort of point to a day. But I've come to realise that those spiritual relations, those spiritual relations, you know, my spiritual life, my relationships with my wife and children, you know, you know, are far more important than you know, than sort of a greater purpose. You know, I would sacrifice a greater purpose in an instant If I achieved a greater purpose but lost my relationship with my kids and my wife. I would feel like a total failure.

Speaker 3:

You know, and it's great if you can have both um, but you know, and and for some people who have got great capability and you have to be realistic about your capability too, you know but I do think, I think that, um, it does come out of uh, for it comes out of a spiritual disciplines, but I would say that that's actually surprisingly. That's actually only been a really important part of my life, a really sort of consistent part of my life in the last few years. Yet, you know, I've been sort of a churchgoer all my life. But you know, hey, that's the story. But yeah, no, I agree, I 100% agree with what you're and it's a fantastic foundation, and can I just also say this very quickly is that it also keeps you grounded on what is on constantly bringing you back.

Speaker 3:

You know, if a plane takes off in Sydney and is bound for Los Angeles and you know it's a fraction of a degree out by the time it gets to Los Angeles, it's miles off its destination. So every day we need to make these just minute adjustments. But you've got to do it every day, yeah, because if you don't and you don't make those minute adjustments, your life goes off on a tangent. And you've got to just and it's not massive, you know Like it's very, very small, but it's important.

Speaker 1:

And it's easier to do the small ones every few days than do a massive one every few months, right, exactly, yeah, great question, mark, great, thank you. Anyone else question comment on this subject or on purpose?

Speaker 5:

I guess speaking on behalf of myself and the next generation again, how do you find a balance between, say, having ambition and dreams and wanting to be productive, but then also having that balance of satisfaction and centeredness and being just satisfied with what is in front of you right now but also, at the same time, having a goal for the future or wanting to provide for your family? How do you find the middle ground between those two things?

Speaker 1:

It's a really good question. I'll give a short comment, then you guys dive into it. And, interestingly, that question you just asked is probably the number one question that I'm hearing from young men all the time which points to that thing of there's a lot of messaging around these guys now around you know, max out your productivity and all this kind of thing which you know the heart of it is probably okay, but it goes way too far. So your question is a great one.

Speaker 1:

Something that has worked for me a little bit in that regard is I've had to keep on how can I say it? I've had to keep on falling in love with simple pleasures, because what I used to do is I used to elevate the value of the important things too much and I would devalue the importance of the not so important things too much. So I had to lift the level of the value of simple things. Like for me, I love to go for a long drive and I used to just treat it as like oh yeah, whatever. But I've've actually I've learned to retreat it highly because I know what it does for me in my soul and so for me, probably 15 years ago, I had to start learning how to get better engagement with the whole idea of managing my soul tank, which is, you know, am I actually filling it up with stuff that's simple, that's accessible.

Speaker 1:

I call them the created gifts. You know, we've tried to do some of that stuff with our family, with where we holiday, in places like Jindabyne, where the whole holiday you know to Paul's point earlier the whole holiday is about put screens down and go outdoors is about put screens down and go outdoors. So I have found that the simple enjoyments, whatever they are, seem to do a nice job of stitching those two other worlds together. But what do you guys think? To Marcus's question, there I'll go.

Speaker 6:

One thing me and my wife do now probably the last 10 years we've done it is we talk about the 1, 5 and 10. Okay, it's just a practical thing. So we talk about today, obviously, be personally, what does my life look like today, how am I travelling, and all that. But the 1, 5 and 10 is where do we want to be in a year, five years and 10 years? That doesn't mean we're going to get there, but it gives us a roadmap forward so we might have a big dream for 10 years. You know, and even with this purpose stuff, I think it's important to have purpose. But I love what both the gentlemen have said in regards to that, and one of the things right now in my life is my purpose is to support my wife and what her business idea is, because if she's successful with that, I won't have to work again.

Speaker 4:

That's a good investment.

Speaker 6:

And she's much more driven than I am and you know much better at everything than I am.

Speaker 1:

Okay, we'll play this episode to her? No, but just make that a bit louder. At the moment, we'll put some graphics on the screen.

Speaker 6:

No, but just on that there. Firstly is, don't underestimate a bit of what Geoff said the impact you have on people's lives when your purpose is for others. Yeah, so my wife's got this idea and she's been, you know, bugging me to do this idea and I finally gave in and said, yes, let's do this idea, and I'm realising this is a flipping good idea.

Speaker 7:

Right.

Speaker 6:

It's a really, really good idea. What is it and I'm not telling you, You'll find out one day and the strength that it's given her and the confidence it's given her, my purpose right now is to almost lift her up and, you know, give her that strength to go and do that. And so the one, the five and the 10 ties into that too. So where do we want to be in five years? So just an example was back in 2014.

Speaker 6:

I've said this story to people before. It was one income small house, growing family. I was working 60, 70-hour weeks, big weeks, and I got home one day on a Saturday and I said we're going out. She goes where are we going? I said we're going to dream, we're going to build a house. And she goes how are we going to do that? I said I don't know, but we're going to do it. And so that was our dream. Within five years, we're going. We were never reckless. We never let our purpose or our dream become reckless to the detriment of our marriage, our relationship, my relationship with the kids, any of that, our finances. So clarify that bit.

Speaker 6:

But the one, five and 10, it gives us so we know what our dream is in 10 years we might not get exactly there. God might kind of position us and take us somewhere else, but we're headed somewhere, right, so we're headed somewhere. Now, my whole focus in life isn't just for that 10. It's still for what's happening this year, sure. So if that's something that's it's a simple thing that we do might not work for everyone, sure, but the one five, 10, it gives us that this is where we're headed, this is where we're headed this year Yep're headed this year, yeah, and in five years let's see if we get there and let's see how it changes, gotcha. So it gives you that you know purpose for what's ahead, but it keeps you in the now yeah, very good.

Speaker 1:

So there's. There's two things, marcus, enjoying simple things. The second one that I heard mick say is, when you look future, have more of a guideline rather than trying to specify everything, because even if you do everything perfect, something in life will stuff up your roadmap. You guys want to add anything to that? As far as Marcus' question there, I think it's brilliant.

Speaker 2:

I think, for me, daydream like just dream of possibilities, like spend time cultivating what it is that actually makes your heart sing and things will open up towards it. And yeah, invest time in yourself, be curious, be curious about the world around you, Be curious about you know what can happen, you know. Be curious about ideas. You know, talk about your wife. You know, with ideas it came from somewhere and the next big thing is going to come from someone. It's like, why not you? Yeah, so enjoy doing that. And then I think the comment of it can change in an instant. Yeah, you know, I know in my life there's certain points it's like I had all these big ideas and big dreams and then overnight it's like, okay, I guess we're not doing that.

Speaker 1:

You know, so, yeah, so just Great, really good. Anyone else Question comment on this subject purpose Yonash, let's send the mic back there. I hope I pronounced your name correctly did, I Nailed it.

Speaker 7:

So I was wondering if you guys think that One of the issues with purpose is that men don't know how to function in times of peace, when there is no great adversity, there is no world to save, no virgin to rescue or anything like that, and all of a sudden we're finding ourselves in a place where we have to look within instead of out and we don't know what to do.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, it's a great question. You are spot on that. There's no doubt adversity and challenge. I mean, you look at all the great figures of history. A lot of them are great or famous because of what they had to endure, what they had to combat. So I think that's a hyper valid point. I'm not going to say a lot on this because I'm going to bounce to you guys again, but maybe that is our challenge is that we seem to be at a version of our best as men when we've got to go to war, but then when we're in peacetime, so to speak, we're not so great at living peacefully with ourselves.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, look, actually that's a really, really great point that you make. I think that it's built into the DNA of every boy is the desire to you know, to have a battle, to fight. You know, and I can remember one of my older brothers was a carpenter and he came home one day with this and he'd cut out this out of a block of timber a machine gun for me, and it was just. I loved this thing. I loved it so much I used to climb up onto it. In fact I nearly broke a kid's back one time. I climbed up on this shed and we were playing like wars or something and I like hurtled down and like slammed on his back and it was great.

Speaker 3:

But I think it's inbuilt in us to fight and the thing is we, but fighting is a very, it's very problematic because, number one, you can pick the wrong fight, you know. Number two, if you're working, you've got a dream and it's all coming to pass, and then that could be creating a problem at home potentially, you know, and then you think that fights against your wife, you know, but that's not the real fight. Could be the worst one, but it's not the real fight. If everything is going peacefully, then as a man, I think you need to actually look for a fight that you can help one of your mates to fight. You know, because you need to fight, because you need to fight.

Speaker 3:

I've got friends who were one in particular, who was a commando in the Australian Special Forces, and they are programmed to fight and the rate of suicide for those guys when they come back is two and a half times higher than the rest of the population because all of a sudden they don't have a fight anymore. You know, and I think that you know fantastic, if your home life is peaceful and your work life is peaceful, everything's perfect. But your mate, there'll be somebody around in your circle that's having a battle and you can jump in there and help them out. You know, and bring your strength to that situation.

Speaker 7:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

But I think that a man who a man without a battle is, like you know, is like a man without balls. Basically, like you know, there is a sense where you do need to have something, channel that aggression and that you know, that desire to win. Let's put it bluntly Does anyone here like to lose? Not particularly Right, you know. No one, no boy, likes to lose, right, no man likes to lose. And so channel that into you know. But it's a great, it's a great thing. We all need to have a battle. It is a great question.

Speaker 1:

Really good question. I love the way you've answered that, geoff, because you've opened up my thoughts about that. And while you're answering, I'm contemplating a few things myself and not necessarily certain whether I'm settled on my own comment. But maybe there is an element that as men we cannot be at our best without a battle, and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't come home from battle and rest and then go back to battle and come home and rest. We should do that. But you know, to your point of look, I don't know many, I don't know if I know any men where everything's going swimmingly and they've got peace all around. I think we know what we call them boys Really, in the sense of you've all seen a 40-, 50-year-old man who's got no responsibility, no battle, nothing to fight for, and he usually ends up causing damage left, right and centre.

Speaker 3:

And I should just point out to just when you said, that I'm not saying that we should go and pick a fight where there is no fight.

Speaker 7:

I didn't hear you saying that.

Speaker 3:

Just go and be cheeky to the person who makes you coffee in the morning because you think I'm going to have a fight.

Speaker 1:

today, men will meet for a battle.

Speaker 3:

And I need a battle, I'm not saying that, but in the issues of life, and you know it's very important.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I don't think any of us perceived it that way, but it is a great question. Anyone else got a question or comment on this subject, If I can add?

Speaker 6:

sorry, yeah, go for it. If I can add something to that, I love what you said. It's amazing because I've seen so many men, friends and people on a distance that their life seems to be like that. They don't have any fights, they're well-resourced now, whether it's through their own success or the success of others, and they just sit on their yacht doing nothing. And I'm thinking, man, if I was in that position, it wouldn't be about the money, it would be how many people could I help? So I love that point.

Speaker 6:

But you said something before as well about taking pleasure in the small things. So I think it's important for us as men too, that when we do have that peace all right, right now I want some peace in my life because we've got a lot going on yes. To just sit and go and breathe, yes. So I think that's important too, to be able to stop for that moment, yes, and almost there will be another fight around the corner, totally, whether it's for yourself or for someone else. So learning to take pleasure in that, that's right Because, like you said, our inner nature is to you know, I don't think it's either or I think it's both and.

Speaker 1:

And you know your reminder. There is a good reminder that we've got to try to find moments where we remember life is actually meant to be for the enjoying. There are wars to fight, there are battles that have to be had, and it's in our design that we should do well in those, but we're supposed to enjoy it as well. Look how much you got us talking there. You're a great question. Um, isaiah, you had a question, I think. Is that right? I thought I saw you keep the mic with you, if you have one. No, it's made it all the way to the front.

Speaker 8:

Go for it. I just wanted to sort of point back to like a biblical perspective, right, and like I feel like you know it's pretty clear that our purpose is to serve God and to serve others, and so I was wondering, like, how do you do that, as well as you know, managing your need to like survive and like thrive in life, and like could you give some examples of that, if you have done that?

Speaker 1:

Sure, look great, if we answer this one, we're all going to be very, very rich, because what you're talking about there is the grand journey of the life of everyone on the planet. But maybe if I can give something that's reasonably crystallized in response, I think one of the best gifts that we can ever give is to be the best version of a man that we can be, and the gents have touched on it in several moments tonight, in simple things, and you know, the gents have touched on it in several moments tonight. In simple things, if you are fortunate, if anyone is fortunate enough to be blessed with talents and abilities that are bigger than others and and look, as most of you would know, I don't I don't at all swim in the waters of every kid gets a ribbon. If you place eights, you don't get a ribbon, you get to do a different sport. That's my view on the world. Right, I've got one fan. I'm not down on the kid who couldn't finish fast. He's just not a runner. Why keep submitting him to that pain? Because there are some kids who are a nine out of ten at running, and so we should celebrate. They're gifted and capable in that area, and so if you're gifted, all right. Well, you probably do owe the world more than someone who's not as gifted.

Speaker 1:

But what everyone can do that's within reach of every man, is to honour, I think, to honour the gift of life we've been given. Even though life gets hard, we still are in a situation of being gifted every day because we have been given life. Our creator has given life, and I think one of the greatest things that any man, every man, can do to honour that gift and to balance all of those pressures we're talking about, is internally say I'm going to do the best that I can do in me on the stuff that counts, especially in today's world. If I could give a message to young men right now, it would be really simple, basic stuff, but I would try to put a lot of fire in their belly about it, around stuff like when you say you're going to go to the altar and marry a girl, do your damnedest to stand with her for the rest of your breathing days. Now, it doesn't always work, as we know, but you should try your hardest.

Speaker 1:

You know, if you're blessed to have kids come into the world I think jeff might have said it you know if you can be at their sport. You get there right. That's your gift to the world. If you have talents that are the cherry on top of that, awesome, great, we all benefit. But I think the world could do a lot better from having a lot more men who are less concerned I'm not saying this is you but less concerned about the spectacular giftings and way more passionate about you. Know, I can actually honour this gift of life I've been given by being the best version of a man. We don't have enough prototypes. You can find them in a room like this if you go looking in society. We do not have enough men who have got the fire in their belly about just a simple thing, so I don't know if you guys want to comment on that as well, or?

Speaker 3:

um, I I just would say this, uh about your question where it is a struggle to you know, work and also be available and engaged with your you know wife and your kids. And if you've got responsibilities in church or whatever to you know, make it all happen. Or whatever to you know, make it all happen. You know those seasons don't last forever, but sometimes they do. I can remember a time when I was it's not that it was around the 2010 and 11 marks, not that long ago I was running a business, I was studying for my MBA, my wife was pregnant with our third child and we were building a house all at the same time. We were building a house all at the same time, and it didn't last forever, but it was very intense.

Speaker 3:

And my advice to myself at the time and I would say it to other people too and this goes against you know, don't misunderstand what I'm going to say, but suck it up. It's a tough time, sure't misunderstand what I'm going to say, but suck it up. It's a tough time, sure, but it's not going to last forever. It might last for a year or two. You might be like run off your feet, you know. You might be working, you know, 12-hour days. And then you come, you know, and you've just got to find some workarounds, you know, so that you don't come home carrying your work home. And you know, and you've just got to find some workarounds, you know, so that you don't come home carrying your work home. And you know, and you feel like you're being like those stretch dolls, you know, like Elastic or whatever that cartoon character is, you know, but it doesn't last forever, you know, and other things kind of slot in and you know, you move around and then you realise, hey, you know, I was doing all that work and you know, I started my MBA, which is a four-year degree, master's degree, and two years into it I realised that most masters are only two years, but I chose the one.

Speaker 3:

I happened to chose the one that was four years. Idiot, right, you know, but I did, I just stuck at it and I did it and I and I was, I used to get up at four o'clock every morning and and I'd do two hours of study because I didn't want to disturb the family, and then, you know, the kids would wake up and go to school, I'd go to work and then come home. You know, the usual stuff, go to bed and then I'd be up at 4 o'clock again the next morning. That was just how I did that period of my life. But it doesn't last forever. So you know, there are times when you just have to take it on the chin and, you know, do what you have to do, and then halfway through you think, why did I start this? You know everyone asks that question. But yeah, you know there are times in your life and it's not like you've done anything wrong.

Speaker 7:

No.

Speaker 3:

It's, just, it is what it is.

Speaker 2:

It's the way it is. Yeah, exactly so wholly agree and want to add something to it. For me, like I grew up funny enough, you mentioned war my dad grew up at the tail end of the Second World War in Germany and all the horror and all the trauma that he experienced he then brought across to Australia and then brought it into our family and I learned to be driven and basically living was war. You know, you just go out and you annihilate everyone else and you achieve so. I was willful, full on, you know, ADD HD 100 mile an hour and then ran smack bang like I was willful, full on, you know, add HD 100 mile an hour and then ran smack bang like I was an atheist.

Speaker 2:

I hated Christians, I thought it was a complete waste of time and that they were kidding themselves, and then ran smack bang into God and realised that he existed, that he was real, and it just blew my mind and everything that I'd learnt to that point came up against the fact that I was created by a creator and that I was actually held in him, I existed in him.

Speaker 2:

And the whole isolation, the whole you know, I've got to do this on my own the whole.

Speaker 2:

You know, being abandoned and just having to make a life for myself suddenly took on a new context of I actually got to I'll use the word play as a human being before God who had created me, and it shifted me into a place where, still focused on achieving, still run a business I'm more productive now in my life than I ever have been throughout business and yet I get to play, I get to actually exist in this life and create beautiful things and create beautiful relationships and actually worship in my very being before a living God, and it, you know, coupled with the sucking it up, you know, coupled with the tough times and the pressing through, there is an ability to actually exist in savouring life, because we are created by God and we can live lives of worship, we can live lives of praise, we can live lives of complete joy and actually playing like children, at the same time of existing in a world where there's war, you know, existing in a world where there's violence and all this horrendous stuff going on, and it shifts our life and it actually makes it a joyful experience.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Brilliant, brilliant. I'll leave it at that. Great question, great responses.

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