Andrew Gray Podcast
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For far too long Masculinity has been vilified as some kind of societal scourge, when in fact the complete opposite is the truth. Masculinity was created to protect, provide, strengthen and empower every person, and every aspect of our communities.
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Andrew Gray Podcast
Revealing Hidden Traps of Getting Older for MEN
Ever wondered how generational influences shape the way men perceive masculinity as they age? Join us for a deeply personal exploration of what it means to be a man in today's world, as we share heartfelt stories about breaking free from traditional stereotypes. This episode dives into the emotional complexities of father-son relationships and the journey toward a healthier sense of self. We uncover how age and experience can redefine strength, making room for vulnerability and emotional presence in our lives.
As life progresses, staying open and curious becomes a challenging yet vital endeavor. We explore the pitfalls of becoming set in one's ways and the importance of maintaining connections to avoid isolation. Listen to touching anecdotes about navigating family dynamics and the conscious effort to cultivate joy and engagement, even as we grow older. This conversation underscores the crucial message that embracing change and growth can lead to a more fulfilling and connected life, challenging societal norms about aging men.
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let's. Let's go high level again for a moment and come back up to all of the headlines collectively mental health pressure, masculinity struggle, etc. Etc. What factor, if any, is age, you know. So here we've got 30s, 40s and 50s brackets here. Is it a factor? And if it is, why I think it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's generate like generational I. I think there are some aspects about it where it can be, I think it's. I think it's generate like generational I. I think there are some aspects about it where it can be, I I think I know. For me personally, my experience is that and actually you know, you know what it's probably the same regardless of generation. But I know, you know, with my father, like I had to be, you know, I wasn't allowed to be emotional or anything like that, like being masculine was a particular stereo, it was a specific stereotype, this is how it looked, this how it had to be, kind of thing. So but in saying that, though I'm sure all all of us in the room have had that same kind of, you know, reality and it's more about like, okay, I don't want to be like that for my kids, okay, and then that might, but how do you find yourself kind of not doing that to them as well?
Speaker 2:I'm sure our fathers were like I'm not gonna be like that to my kids I'm not gonna be like my dad exactly.
Speaker 1:We've all said that, yeah, so it's good and bad in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah for sure, and I think it's a matter of, like you know, a skill set of like trying to pick and choose.
Speaker 2:You know what was good and what's not good, like you know, for example, like my father, um, like, said like I'm, like, I'm proud of you, I love you, up until, like you know, when we got more serious running a business together, that dynamic shifted right.
Speaker 2:And you know, and he would often say, like when it's when it's eight till four, it's you know, jack and anakin, and then after that it's father and son and like, really, really, so know, there was a lot of um, there were a lot of like, the line was blurred a lot and um, yeah, it was just, it was just such an interesting dynamic to work through.
Speaker 2:But he would often say to me, though, like, and that that thing was hard for me to say that was oh, but I thought you know what happened to like the I love you and I'm proud of you, and all that, and that shifted a lot like when we got into business together. And that shifted a lot like when we got in business together, right, and that's why I kind of retreated from it all, because for me, my relationship with my father was way more important than any successful business. If you were to tell me, anakin, you're gonna have the most successful kitchen company in all of australia, um, but you don't talk to your father ever again. I will not slide on that dotted line right any time of the day.
Speaker 2:I won't, because it's not a good example to show my kids and my sons, because I want a strong relationship with that and show them what a real man, like a strong man, is. To be A strong man is to make tough decisions. Yes, you know in those kinds of situations and what success looks like, and to me, success as a man is, you know, being there, present for my children and being there to listen to them and, just, you know, make sure I'm there for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, look, you're in your 30s. Yeah, okay, you're the young pup here. My season veterans, the other sages in the room, right, yeah, I'm talking about things right now. We're coming along the spectrum progressively, but I say that to say I would regard you as someone that's probably above average on self-awareness for someone in their 30s. Yeah, but maybe I personalise it more for you three gentlemen has it gotten easier as you've gotten older? Yeah, or is the age actually just an incidental factor?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think for myself, I grew up without a dad, right. So from when I was five, my dad left, didn't have much of a relationship with him ever since, right. So I think age has made a huge difference for me. Okay. So my 20s Positive, positive, right Along the way, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Then my 20s a lot of confusion, okay, even down to gender, like just thinking, you know, someone had said, oh, you know, is he gay? He said it to someone I knew and they passed that information on to me. It was because I was young, I hadn't had any girlfriends and you know, people were reading into that, right. But those words stuck around in my 20s, right, you know, just in the back of my head. I never was, but it was like there was always a question mark, right. But then as I've grown up and got older and started to realise I didn't have a dad as a template, to realise I didn't have a dad as a template, so I didn't have a model of a man in my world, of this is what's a good man or this is what a dad looks like, or a father looks like.
Speaker 3:So, coming along those lines, as I got into my 30s, things started to get a little clearer. I started to, you know, obviously, I got married and life started to happen. I had kids. Now I'm in my 40s and I feel a lot more secure in myself and stronger. Okay, and I think that's so. There's been a natural evolution.
Speaker 1:There's been a natural, healthy progression forward in that for me, yep.
Speaker 3:I know that's not everyone's experience. Yes, but I've had to work through all those little things in my head of you know like well who am I.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Am I this, am I that? Yes, I don't have somebody saying, well done, good job, son. Right, I didn't know. When my wife first felt pregnant with our first child, I freaked out how can I be a dad? I don't even know what a dad is, yeah. And then, obviously, finding other men around me that were good men, that I started to look to go, wow, he's a good dad. Yes, maybe the good men that. I started to look to go, wow, he's a good dad. Yes, Maybe I can learn something there.
Speaker 1:Yes, and slowly but surely, as I grew and got older, I started to realise I hear you saying there as you went through the years and through the decades, you matured, you understood yourself more. How common do you think it is that we see men who have this inverse relationship where their self-awareness is growing but their struggle is growing as well? Yeah, is that a bad cocktail? Yeah, is that a worse cocktail than being unaware?
Speaker 3:I don't know how much of it maybe is just natural, right, like there's a bit of a dual tracks going on there. You know what I mean. As we grow and get older and we're working things out, and, yeah, there's a struggle. There's always going to be a struggle. Yes, we're always going to be struggling with something. Yeah, but I think the reality is, as your self-awareness gets stronger, that struggle might be there, but you're a lot stronger in yourself, yes, and you know who you are and you're more confident in that, so you can deal with the negative thing in a more healthy way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even though you're more aware. Yeah, fair call. What about you guys?
Speaker 5:After you. Well, I was a dad before I got married because my wife already had two children. So and if I could go back to there? So I was already. We got together, they were already one and three, so I was an instant father really. When we got together I was mature in a lot of ways. My self-awareness has definitely got better and better the older I've got and it's helped me in life to a point where I get flashbacks of whether it was the way I used to talk back then, because back then I thought I knew everything you know and I knew absolutely nothing.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 5:So if I was to go back now, I think I'd beat myself up because of how much you know. As I've gotten older, I've become a lot more self-aware of who I am, Sure what my strengths are as well as what my weaknesses are. Okay, and it's helped me with the challenges. Yes, Still have many, many challenges all the time, but I'm a lot more confident and secure in myself, what I'm capable of and what I need to keep working on Right.
Speaker 1:So like a natural growth process. Natural growth process has taken place for myself and you know being I was.
Speaker 5:what was I 22 when we got together, so we were an instant family. Yeah, it's pretty young.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I got married at 23 and you're just kind of thrown into instant fatherhood. Yes, and at the time, you don't know what you don't know right. Exactly, you know I had a father, so that was, and I love my dad. Exactly, you know I had a father, so that was, and I love my dad. He's an amazing man. You've still got to go on your journey and learn everything Learn to be a husband and a father at the same time. Yes, and my wife's very strong. We're both very strong opinionated, especially back then. Yes, I think I've become a lot more humble now, so I say yes to you a little bit more. Yeah, so as I've gotten older, it's definitely gotten easier, okay. At the same time, I also believe some of the challenges are greater as I'm getting older. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:So it's not cut and dry? No, I don't believe so. It's very nuanced and unique.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's my own personal experience anyway, interesting. And you know there's a whole challenge now. We've got three daughters and my boy and there's challenges in parenting as they're getting older, you know Totally. So there's great, great challenges now. Yes, some greater challenges than I experienced when I was younger. If you go back then it seems like it was a lot easier. Yeah, okay, so thank goodness I've become more aware of myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. What about you, doug? Has it gotten easier as a factor of age, yeah, or for you has that been a non-factor?
Speaker 4:Yeah, look, I really concur with the, I guess the relaxing into the maturity. There's a lot of things that I worried about. That just don't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like there's a lot of things that I worried about, that just don't matter.
Speaker 4:I think one thing that I'm observing is in myself and also observing in my dad and I guess I've got a generation of guys ahead of me that as you age, you tend to get stuck in this is the way I am, or this is the way the world is, and it's a real challenge for me at the moment to not settle into that Right, and I think one of the big things for me is to actually step fully into curiosity, like there's an exploration. For me, it's like who said you know that you get set in your ways and life can be the same or will be the same, or you'll be the same person. Yes, you know. Who said that? You know that you have to show up in a particular way all the time?
Speaker 2:Like it's just nobody said it so.
Speaker 4:I think for me, the big thing for me of like I'm I'm aging and my body's slowing down and, you know, haven't got the enthusiasm I used to have, and and that's just a given, you know. And then there's the things that blindside you, that you know sickness or you know relationship issues or whatever, and it's like that's just part of life.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:I think in the midst of that is this the joy of digging into the people around you. The joy of you know finding out what life's all about Right. The joy of actually being you know, having the curiosity of a 12-year-old of just how does this?
Speaker 1:work. It doesn't have to be this way.
Speaker 4:If it doesn't have to be this way, how would I like it to be? Right, you know, and I think, particularly with relationships, it's like I've got three daughters. They're all grown up and they're very strong and very opinionated and, you know, making their own way, and part of my curiosity with them is how do I want to have a relationship with them as I get older? Right, you know, I've observed my relationship with my dad and he's stuck in trauma. You know, there's stuff that he's just never gotten out of. You know, and observing that it's like, well, I don't want to be like that. How do I want to be, you know, and cultivating curiosity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I'm fascinated to hear you say that it's a challenge for you, that you're aware of the challenge to not get stuck, when I know you to be not just very self-aware, you are what I would describe as hyper-aware, you know at the very, very high end of understanding who am I and what am I feeling and what am I thinking and what's going on around me. And yet you're still saying there are challenges there, to not get stuck.
Speaker 4:Is it too simplistic? I think there's the fundamental tenet of if I cultivate this, something will come out of it. If I apply energy and you know the energy is towards, you know connection and relationship, or you know the joy of life, or you know dealing with whatever, there will be an outcome. You know that's the way that life seems to be Right. There's also the converse of that of if I close myself off and isolate myself, um and and put up walls and barriers, yes, then things will not change right, it's a grand challenge, isn't it really?
Speaker 1:because we do see that with men, you know, not so much in their 50s but certainly 60s and 70s, we see men who, understandably, I think, get to a point where they go I've actually had enough. And not in a suicidal context, but in the fight and the struggle and the grind they go I've had enough, I'm done, I don't want to do it anymore. And then their response becomes to retreat into smallness and stuckness. And you know, I've figured out how I like things and leave me alone and I can understand. And it must be a challenge and I want to ask you guys that question.
