Andrew Gray Podcast
Dedicated to empowering men (especially middle-aged men) to become everything they were destined for!
Totally focused on strengthening the Inner-Life Health & Sustainability of all men, regardless of age, education, background or status.
For far too long Masculinity has been vilified as some kind of societal scourge, when in fact the complete opposite is the truth. Masculinity was created to protect, provide, strengthen and empower every person, and every aspect of our communities.
This channel exists to play a part in the renaissance of healthy masculinity.
My mission is to reach the men who feel like 'dead men walking' and help to restore their hope, so they are re-calibrated to their purpose and calling in life!
Andrew Gray Podcast
Other MEN - Enemies or Allies?
What happens when the pressures of masculinity collide with the need for emotional support? Imagine juggling the roles of being a father, husband, and provider while society demands that you hold it all together. Join us as we unpack the critical importance of brotherhood and open communication in navigating these intense pressures. Through deeply personal stories, we explore how the weight of these expectations often leads men to suppress their emotions and resort to unhealthy coping methods like excessive drinking. The episode underscores the power of recognizing emotional struggles early and leaning on supportive friendships to adopt healthier ways of facing life's challenges.
We then shift gears to examine the role of humility and authentic connections in a world that often prioritizes appearances over genuine interactions. How do we show up as our true selves in our workplaces and personal relationships, and what are the mental and emotional benefits of doing so? By sharing personal journeys of embracing vulnerability and accepting help, we highlight how humility can foster stronger, more supportive connections. This conversation illuminates the unique support system that brotherhood offers, making it a cornerstone for personal growth and emotional well-being.
Finally, we tackle an issue many men face: the instinctive drive to solve problems rather than simply listen and empathize. How can we become better communicators and supporters, especially in our closest relationships? We discuss the significance of pausing to truly listen and the transformative impact of being fully present when someone shares their feelings. Expressing gratitude and acknowledging vulnerabilities can create deeper, more meaningful connections. Tune in to learn how these practices can foster a more empathetic and supportive community, one conversation at a time.
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yes, we're recording an episode for a YouTube channel, but actually what's going on here is it's a prototype or an example of what more men need to do in a context that we might describe as brotherhood, which sounds a little bit cliche and it can become a bit weird if you let it, but actually this is what it is and I think if guys could find that, maybe they could find voice and point it in the right direction, as opposed to silence, which goes to medication. Yeah, what are your thoughts on that whole dynamic?
Speaker 2:yeah, um, I know, like sometimes men as well can be like well too consumed over the over there, like what are they meant to be, you know? Or wearing so many different hats. As a man, you're a father, you're, you're a son, you're a husband, you're a provider, you're a worker, all these things. Pressure kind of gets to you and trying to, you know, share that and it's like I could share it or I could just, you know, have a six pack and just drown that noise and it's kind of like, all right now I'm feeling a bit better. That helped.
Speaker 2:And then you go to sleep and then wake up and do it over again and it can kind of be a trap in that sense, where you know, if you're in that cycle, you're looking for this, as you said, medication, self-medication, it's so destructive, so, so destructive, and it's trying to catch those signs early on, because we have this inability to open up so easily. You know it tends to, you know, shift more in that direction and, yeah, it can be attractive and you can't talk, you know, obviously you're talking to your mates and everything like that. And one day I had, you know, trying to get my new house all set up and had so many things going on and I was like I couldn't. I had to make sure my kids were okay and all this kind of stuff. And then my mate was helping me and he's like you've got so much going on, are you okay? And I stopped for a second and I said I'm not, but I'm going to keep going, and I didn't even have a second to even stop.
Speaker 1:Did you hear yourself when you said that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, just now yeah.
Speaker 1:In the moment when it happened. Did you hear yourself?
Speaker 2:For a split second and then I remembered. But I haven't got time to, you know, fester on my emotions I haven't got time for it.
Speaker 2:I got I gotta make sure all this is done. I've got another kid on the way. I've got kids who need me right now. I got you know, I want to make sure I get all this done before I do my night shift, all these things right, it's like, because if I don't do this now, that means I have to do it later, which you know. And as men we want to. We're just wired in our dna to be, you know, um, to be successful. You know we don't like the word like, it's a bad f word the fail, will you know, just to fail, it's not okay. So right, so you know we find other methods and trying to cope with it. And it's again those windows which get you know, if we ignore, which I just did. And then, yeah, and that was just that's where it ends up going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Do you guys feel a similar thing? Do you observe a similar thing?
Speaker 4:It's an epidemic. What you're describing is our culture.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Like we're just immersed in this thing and you can't see it because you're in it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:I think, and I think, like you touched on it, on the showing up, like, I think, like the being known, like we've all showed up tonight, you know, and in one form or another we've had on our personas, you know, and we've been jovial and that's the presentation, but then, beneath that is the known person and it's like if, whatever context we're in, you know, whatever workplace, whatever relationship, stepping into that place of I want to be known.
Speaker 4:I actually want to be known right now, in this present moment, as a human being and I feel, you know, weary. I've had a big day. You know my foot's hurting at the moment, you know it's affecting the way I view the world. You know, I've had interactions with staff and contractors and business, and that's who I am showing up right now. You know, and, yes, there's a lot of stuff out ahead of me, you know, and there's a lot of history, you know, from family and whatever, but right in this instance, this is what I'm feeling and this is how I'm showing up. How are you? You know, like, where are you at?
Speaker 3:right now.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:Does that make sense to you? Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Is it possible and I don't have a personal opinion on this question that I'm committed to is it possible that the brotherhood context is so unique and the challenges facing middle-aged men are so unique that a healthy brotherhood is the only context where this can be achieved, or only context in fullness, or does it happen in different places? I think it's a part of it. A part.
Speaker 5:In my opinion, I've probably in the last five years, been more challenged in my life than ever. Right, and a shift that took place in my life probably two, three years ago, because I was just headed down a bad place I literally brought to my knees health-wise and a change that took place in my mind and in my soul really was to be more humble about who I am. Right, and I find that I'm stronger now and I've found strength in being humble because by being humble in myself, okay, there's people God's placed people around me that have something to offer, and so the whole thing of working hard. I was doing so much, even before my health, so much, and when I started to realise how much I was doing to try and make all these things happen, I was exhausted, I was headed down a bad place mentally. I was doing to try and make all these things happen. Yep, I was exhausted, I was headed down a bad place mentally, I was getting depressed and it was all because of this whole thing of I need to be so strong.
Speaker 5:Right, I'm the man, I'm the father, I'm a pastor, I'm all these things. People look up to me, right, and I just I can't show weakness Right. My wife wants to see me strong, and really it was a challenge from my wife to say you're headed down a bad path, you need to sort yourself. And I had to be humble Right. And when I became humble, it then allowed me to get help from the Brotherhood, get help from people around me, get help from counsellors, and it's actually made me stronger for it because I realised you know what.
Speaker 5:I don't have to do everything Right, I just need to be who. And it's actually made me stronger for it because I realised you know what. I don't have to do everything, I just need to be who I am. I need to. I've got something to offer the world too and offer people around me, but at the same time, I need to be humble enough to know that. You know, maybe Doug's got something for me, maybe Andrew's got something for me, my dad's got something for me, the brothers around me have something.
Speaker 1:So I think the brotherhood is a part of it, but, yeah, something needs to also, there needs to be a shift in ourselves as well. So there was a process going on in you, definitely. Yeah, can I ask you a follow-up on that? How, how linked were the two items of becoming more humble and the fact that, circumstantially, you were getting humbled? Yeah, I definitely I've always.
Speaker 5:I've always considered myself to be a humble person. I don't. And the fact that, circumstantially, you were getting humbled, yeah, definitely, I've always considered myself to be a humble person. I don't think a great deal of myself, right, but when you get brought to your knees because of health issues, I was literally told six or 12 months I had to live if I didn't have to get my heart sorted out. That brings you to your knees. Wow, big time.
Speaker 5:And then, all of a sudden, you have a different perspective to say man, I haven't done anything I wanted to do in this life. What am I leaving? My kids, my wife? I'll never forget when I came home from hospital and I saw my boy at the time he was nine. I've never told him this, I don't even know if he'll see it I remember seeing his look when I walked in the house I was in hospital for about 10, 11 days and seeing the look on his face, it was like petrified, relieved, everything all at once. Yeah, wow. And so when you get brought to a place like that, you have been humbled.
Speaker 5:Yes, You're also blessed that you're still here, yes, and it's a wake-up call, but it still didn't happen at that moment for me. I still thought, okay, let me get through this. And then I had a battle for the next 12, 24 months, just in myself, right, and it was really my wife challenging me. She was just seeing just traits in my life, the way I was maybe talking to the kids, her, you know, being angry, always looking like the whole world's on my shoulders, looking depressed. So it was definitely a combination, but the humbled circumstance didn't necessarily bring me to that place straight away. Right, it was something that I had to shift into.
Speaker 1:Part of the process. Yeah, that's amazing, mick, and you know thank you for sharing that. Yeah, that's pretty personal, intense stuff, but I take your point that in your experiences it was a part of the solution. What about for you guys? Do you agree? Is it part, is it the whole? How does it play out, do you think?
Speaker 2:How does it play out, do you think?
Speaker 1:Just trying to process it like Because you know, Mick, you were saying from your perspective, it's a part of it, but you're also alluding to the fact that there were other processes going on in you at the same time.
Speaker 5:I don't want to belittle the brotherhood either. Definitely, the brotherhood is so important, so so important.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 5:Because even you mentioned about tradies and your job. There's an attitude as well from employers. Some employers yeah, you know, I've experienced it myself, you know such and such says that if they've got things going on in their life, oh, what have they got going on in their life?
Speaker 2:That's an attitude in society. First, reaction.
Speaker 4:Don't bring it to work. Yeah, don't bring it to work. You've got to do your job. That's a great distraction.
Speaker 5:So there's that side of things. So the brotherhood is so important, but you can only help someone if they want to be helped, true, so that's where, from yourself. That's how I see the humble side of things. I do need help. I'm a man, but you know what? I'm weak, sometimes, right, a lot of the times. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what All the time? If I'm real, what's life like on the other side of all of that experience?
Speaker 5:The challenges are still there, sure, but being humble about it allows me to allows people in. Right, I don't just let everyone in Sure, but it allows important people in my life in to help me through those times. Yes, and I honestly, I'm also blessed. I have a great wife that's supportive, she lifts me up, right. There's also men out there that don't have that you know. So that's where the brotherhood is even more important to have men around you to say you know, we're here with you okay it's okay to show weakness.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know. So maybe personal circumstance, personal context, yeah, is actually a factor in definitely the ratio of how important the brotherhood is. Like you say, you've got strong family around you, you've got a supportive wife, but obviously there are men out there who don't necessarily have that and so perhaps for them the brotherhood is more of a factor. Dave, what do you?
Speaker 3:think, yeah, look, I think there's healthy brotherhood and there's unhealthy brotherhood. Right, definitely and so finding people in your world who are healthy and are going to show genuine care and concern yes, I find, most of the time, though, guys just don't know what to ask or how to ask it. Yes, so we kind of stumble over our own words. We know something's not right with a mate, but how do I ask?
Speaker 3:Yes, is it going to come across, you know, a bit wussy or a bit touchy-feely, right right, you know, like every other day in the week we're jovial and having fun and mucking around, but, yeah, so I feel like the brotherhood that can learn to ask the right questions of each other is where you need to be. You need to be in that space where someone's not afraid to ask directly hey, are you thinking of killing yourself, are you having trouble today, are you okay? But not leaving it in that space of just, are you okay? I think we're heading in the right direction. But there's no legs after that. So I ask someone, hey, are you okay? And they go no, right.
Speaker 1:And then you go okay, what do I do now? Yeah, so let's, let's pick up on that for a moment, because, um, you haven't said this because you've probably been modest or whatever, but you, you are a professional in this space, in the mental health space. You train, you coach, you empower organizations in this realm, so this is your wheelhouse, so to speak, and you've touched on something there that I've been passionate about for a long time, which is I I love the initiative of things like are you okay day? Yeah, they're great, yeah, they raise awareness, they live the profile, etc. But maybe by design, they don't go far enough, right?
Speaker 1:So let's take that context where a mate might try that question out for the first time yeah, hey, ano, are you doing okay? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and the first mate says no, but really, I'm actually asking you. And then ano starts to download what he's actually struggling with. What goes on? If the guy on this side has got zero skill, yeah, zero appetite, how do we coach this guy to continue with the process and not give up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're talking about the guy that's being asked the guy who's trying to reach out, the guy who's like I've got to do something, and he thinks he's found his window because a mate asked him are you okay? Yeah, yeah. And he finally gets the backbone to go no, I'm not, I'm not good at all, actually, yeah. And if that lands in the ears of guys who don't know what to do or got no skill that can shut down in a hurry, right, oh, yeah. What do we say to that first bloke? How do we coach him?
Speaker 3:It's. It's a very tricky space, right? Because if, if you don't get the right response or you don't get that sort of supportive yes thing coming back at you from that, then the next time you're less likely to yes so, um, so, yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's a challenge, like as a person and I know even myself like I get lost in my own world and and I forget to practice what I preach in this space sometimes, because it's like you know, just recently I was going through some stuff and I've to practice what I preach in this space sometimes, because it's like you know, just recently I was going through some stuff and I've had some adjustment to medication and a mentor of mine was like are you okay? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm all right, and yeah.
Speaker 3:Then the next time I saw him I said I actually I'm not, you know, I told you a lie and uh and but, but the reality is there are guys there that they don't, you know, obviously have those mentors in their world.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And I feel for them because it's such a tricky space if you do get the courage to go hey, I'm not, but my only encouragement can be is don't give up. Don't give up. You've just got to keep trying. Keep searching, yeah, keep reaching out the best you can.
Speaker 4:Yes, can I jump in there? Yeah, for sure, best you can. Yes, can I jump in there? Yeah, I think what we're touching on is getting comfortable with the ugliness, Like it's an ugly space. For you to say are you okay? And Fannica to say I'm not, you know, my wife's just left me. I'm sleeping in the car, which is not actually happening.
Speaker 1:I told you in confidence.
Speaker 2:I told you my wife is watching this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and edit that which is not actually happening. I told you it was a confidence, but it's ugly and the reaction is, you know him saying that is this nervousness of how am I going to be received? And me receiving. It is like holy crap, I wasn't expecting that, I was expecting fine. It's like holy crap, I wasn't expecting that, I was expecting fine. So there's that and we're taught to retreat back into what's nice by retreat back into the covering and the presentation and it's not real. So the ugliness is like you know, like you're feeling pain and you're expressing it and it's ugly coming out. My ugliness is to actually say holy cow, I have no idea what to do with this mate, but I'm going to step into the space, you know, instead of you know palming it off, into go and see a counsellor or, you know, let's have a beer.
Speaker 3:You know You'll be right, mate You'll be right, just step into the space, step into the space, step into the space. That's like one of the most powerful places to be. I think we think, oh, we've got to have all the answers, right, but it's actually going. Hey, man, I do not understand what to do here, but I'm with you, yes, and I'm sitting here and I'm listening. Yes, I may not have all the answers, but you're not alone.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, I think the mutual point that you two are making there is a really powerful takeaway for guys who are watching this now, this idea of if you're the one who's struggling, don't give up on trying to search for a listening ear. Yeah. And then, secondly, you know maybe guys who are thinking, yeah, but I don't want to be stuck in that mode where I've got to hear that let's all take the pressure off. You don't have to have all the answers you can actually just respond with. I'm really sorry to hear that. I don't know exactly what to say to you, but I'll walk with you.
Speaker 1:Let's get you some help together.
Speaker 4:Would that be fair? That's fine. The reality is, unless you've had specific training, no one has the answer. Like you don't have the right answer to say because, apart from specific training, all the way through your schooling, all the way through uni, all the way through your apprenticeship, you're getting the opposite. You've been getting exactly the opposite and it's like so you've got to almost work out with your mate. Okay, you know you're in strife, I've got no idea. Let's just move into the space.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, yeah, I think, another aspect too, what I've realised more and more as I'm getting older is because I like talking.
Speaker 5:I'll talk, talk, talk If I go out and catch up with a mate, for you know, whether it's a beer or a coffee or whatever, I like to talk and I'm trying to teach myself listen, listen, stop talking keep your mouth and listen and I'm finding, as I'm doing that more that's when I'm actually getting people whether they're from church or whether they're just from my circle of friends, because we love our car stuff, wherever it is that they're actually now open to say no, you know what? I remember having a conversation with someone on the phone a few months ago. We talk every few months, how are you going? Oh yeah, you know the typical Aussie reply yeah, yeah, all good, you know how it is. Then I said no, no, seriously, how are you going? And then he just unloaded on me and just listen.
Speaker 5:Yeah, so I'm also discovering listening to people, listening to those good friends, those, those brothers, people that I'll call brothers, listening to them. Yes, they're starting to. I think the are you okay day and all that is great. Yes, for creating that awareness because even subconsciously, people are going. It's okay to talk about this stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:And yeah so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Sorry. I was just going to say as men as well. I find it very interesting the whole listening concept, because as men we're problem solvers, yeah, yeah. So as soon as we hear an issue, right, we want to fix it Straight away it goes there. I definitely do it a lot with my wife as well. She'll try and talk to me and stuff, and I'll be like why don't you go do this? And she's like it's not what I want to hear.
Speaker 3:I'm like well, what do you want? Famous last words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, we could be heading down a rabbit hole here.
Speaker 2:That's right, kind of just you know it's. It can be such a reactive response how we'll listen to a problem and we want to solve it straight away.
Speaker 2:It's such a and it's like, you know, training a muscle. You know you need to kind of like pump the brakes, slow down and just like kind of meditate on what's being received, and then it, yeah, like we're saying today, it's echoing those words. It's okay to say I don't know what you're feeling, um, but like we're going to try and figure it out together. Thank you for telling me. You know that's a huge thing. You know, being vulnerable and just taking that first step and saying I'm not okay and I'm like well, I'm sorry, you know, but I haven't got the answer for you. But you know, thank you for telling me, thank you for sharing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, let's go high level again.
