Our MEN Are Killing Themselves / We Have to TALK About it

What if the very act of staying silent is costing lives? Today, we confront the harsh reality of male suicide rates in Australia and the generations of men who've been taught to bottle up their emotions. Through powerful personal stories, we uncover the immense pressures men face, struggling to live up to unrealistic standards of strength and success. We challenge the entrenched cultural attitudes that have perpetuated silence and shame, urging men to recognize that it's okay to not be okay and to speak openly about their struggles.

Empowerment through dialogue is not just a concept—it’s a lifeline. This episode delves into the profound relief that comes from sharing one’s deepest pains and the ripple effect it creates. By comparing physical pain with emotional suffering, we highlight the essential need to seek help for the soul just as we do for the body. Listen as we unravel the power of open conversations in healing and fostering a supportive community that breaks the cycle of silence, making sure no one feels alone in their battles.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

In Australia right now, six to eight men a day are killing themselves. It's a heavy subject. There's no avoiding that reality, you know. And you know we chatted previously about the fact that it's hard to get too deep into it because it's very, very heavy. But I think we have a social responsibility to get somewhat into it, because if it doesn't smack us between the eyes are we actually going to make a change? Right? So let's try to figure out the pressure, the generational stuff, the silence, the isolation. Let's talk about those as factors with.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Why are men getting to the end of their rope? And from my perspective, I talk a lot about the fact that running out of hope is a huge issue. You know, like if you go to bed tonight and you get convinced, rightly or wrongly, you get convinced that tomorrow will probably not be a better day than today, and the same with the one after and the one after and the one after, and you're struggling to find your reasons to get out of bed. I can kind of understand how some guys get there, but what do you guys hear? What do you see? What do you think about that issue? That really, if we be frank about it, it's a national tragedy. It really really is, and there's many of them and they all deserve attention, but it seems like this one doesn't get a lot of attention and it's a massive, massive issue. And what do you think?

Speaker 3: 1:26

Yeah, I think it kind of like tiptoes a bit and like it's a bit taboo, you know, like you can't it's present but don't talk about it Right, and kind of. You know talking and rewinding back a little bit about talking about our emotions and expressing it. Me personally, I wasn't taught how to do that. My father was very cold, had to work and get it done and that. And I remember one time just sharing my personal experience is like I remember one time just became a father and had my first son and doing that, plus trying to run a business with my father and all that, and I had a bit of a breakdown and all he said to me was just like you're a man, sort yourself out.

Speaker 1: 2:05

I was like awesome.

Speaker 4: 2:06

Just like that. I was fine.

Speaker 3: 2:08

So, but the thing is, and I think that you know the burden on his shoulders is he wasn't taught either, right? So it's like you know, and I love my dad don't get me wrong but like it kind of be like you know, how am I expecting him to direct me if he can't direct himself, kind of thing, right? So, and because of that it's you know, when we're caught in these kind of situations, it's like what do I do? Who do I go to? You know all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it can be hard to talk to and talk about it, and it's just like you know where do you start, where do you begin?

Speaker 1: 2:40

Yeah, yeah. So silence and generational issues are obviously factors that tie into it. What else? I mean? It's not a perfect science, it's not totally easy to diagnose, but who knows who's listening right? How do we know that there's not guys listening to this now who are looking for answers maybe, or maybe not even answers all the time, but maybe looking for a little prompt? It's okay to talk about your struggles, but what do the rest of you guys think? Why are we dealing with that tragic statistic in Australia right now?

Speaker 4: 3:13

I think one of the other challenges one of the challenges that come with the generations as well, especially a family like mine where great-granddad, grandfather, your father, have seemed like they've had it together in life, the whole working, providing for your family being successful in Australia. And then now, what? Is there something wrong with me that I'm going to say I'm struggling Right, because they never said they were struggling Right. So now am I the first one now. So that's a bit of a shame that can come up in here as well. I think that's one challenge that can come with the generational thing, and it can also be with mates.

Speaker 4: 3:51

You can be in a circle of mates that they've all got it together and you're feeling like you're not. It can be hard to speak up to say, well, why am I the one that doesn't have it together? I'm not going to say anything because they've all got it together, and I think there's a battle that can go up, you know, in a man's mind. Yes, because of that shame that it does. It's one aspect that I really feel strongly about. That, um, I've experienced it with people around, you know, in my life too, that I know have had those battles of men's mental health. It just takes that one moment to speak up about it. Yes, um, and I think that's a big barrier for a lot of men yeah, absolutely um yeah it's very nuanced, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 4:32

it's very specific what you're saying there, but still clearly very powerful, that idea of um if you perceive that other people in the family or in the peer group have got it together which which we know is rarely true for many of us, and certainly not for long periods of time, because we're human, we're flawed, we struggle, um. But if you perceive that those around you've got it together, and in your own head you know how much you don't have it together, you can understand why there's pressure there, right? Yeah, what do you think, doug?

Speaker 5: 5:03

Yeah, I think what you're talking about is absolutely spot on. I think it's coupled, though, with just the reality that most guys are in pain. That's right. There's at least one aspect of their life that they're failing at or they're questioning, or they're suffering through. Yep, and like. I work in a contracting company and we have a lot of young guys, and it boggles my mind that we all front up. You know, just do your job. Yeah, just get it sorted. Don't deal with anything that comes up, Don't deal with any confrontation. You know, just stuff it all down there, it'll be right, and it is obvious that it's not right. And the avenue through into, you know, or the threshold from make sure everything looks fine into I'm a mess, is this enormous wall, and it's like why. You know, when you look around the society, the pressure's on, people are in pain, people are suffering. Yes, you know the whole financial thing, all that sort of stuff. Why do we have to pretend that it's anything other than what it is? Yes, and I think even that. You know, let's not pretend.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Yes.

Speaker 5: 6:22

You know, let's actually say it as it is and let's, you know, step into the ugly truth, you know, and then we can actually relate to each other from a real platform. Yes, I think to date well, not even to date, I mean there's a lot of inroads going in, but when you're dealing with someone who's presenting an image, there's no way you can actually start to sift your own stuff because you're not getting the correct feedback. Yes, you've actually got to get to a place where you know you end up in counselling or you end up in a crisis, or you end up at rock bottom and then suddenly you put your hand up and say I'm a mess and everyone around you goes fair, dinkum, you know, we've been observing it for years. You're at this place now and now you're starting to talk, whereas I think we've got to step back a few places and actually say you know, the reality is, this is where we're at now. Start talking about it.

Speaker 1: 7:18

Yeah, absolutely. I'm fascinated by that little section in the conversation there where you're talking about this collective notion that to some degree everybody is in pain. Now we know that there are people out there right who will hear that and they go oh wow, get over yourselves, you know, but actually even that person has got some measure of pain going on in their soul from their history or their struggle or whatever.

Speaker 1: 7:43

And I recently I'm not massively on X and Twitter, but I'm a little bit on X and I don't know whether to call it X or Twitter, but I'm a little bit on there and saying those of you out there who have achieved some measure of success, please stop turning around and giving us your perfect formula of how you climbed the mountain.

Speaker 1: 8:08

Could, you please tell us some stories about your losses. Tell us how you got to the top of the mountain? Great, we want to hear it. But can you tell us a real story for crying out loud? Because I think what I see going on, Doug, is there's this tension and it's actually an aggressive tug of war between the image that's presented, especially on social media you know that's a highlight reel, that we know the damage it's doing to our young people and young minds, but to men as well the highlight reel that's out there versus people's reality. Any wonder people are struggling to admit to themselves, let alone to anybody else. I've got pain and I'm in pain. What do you guys think about all that?

Speaker 2: 8:51

yeah, I reckon it's like um, a lot of guys don't even know what they're feeling, right? So how can I express to you what I'm feeling if I don't, if I'm?

Speaker 1: 8:59

not 100, sure what?

Speaker 2: 9:00

actually is going on as well, like I know in my own life, like I've been through depression and had a journey with that in my life, and you know the nature of depression is isolation right so it's not that I don't want to talk, but I'm so consumed with what is going on internally that I I miss the cues sometimes to share and I'm trying internally to grapple with this thing.

Speaker 2: 9:26

So sometimes I don't think it's intentional that the guy doesn't want to talk. I think that you get lost in the I guess, the conversation with yourself, inside your own head that you're battling, because often that conversation is attacking your identity, who you are as a person, and you're trying to figure out, like, what is going on. What is that feeling I'm feeling? What is that emotion? I don't know what it is, yes, and so you know, like, but then finding a space where you get permission is huge.

Speaker 1: 9:55

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 9:56

And I know for myself, like just being a voice of opening up in front of groups of people talking about it, as if, hey, there's no facade here. Yeah, I've struggled with mental health. Yeah, I've had suicidal thoughts. Yeah, I've had depression, anxiety, so openly so that it gives permission to other people to think, oh, maybe I can get out of my bubble a little bit. Yeah, absolutely, Maybe I could go and talk, and I've had guy after guy after guy come up to me. Oh, maybe I can get out of my bubble a little bit.

Speaker 1: 10:21

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 10:22

Maybe I could go and talk, and I've had guy after guy after guy come up to me and say hey, you know what you're talking about. I'm experiencing that. I've gone through this, yeah, yeah. So I think you know that. Internal battle, though, is that dialogue on the inside.

Speaker 1: 10:37

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 10:38

Especially around suicide suicidal ideology. Yes, it's so horrific for someone who is experiencing it Totally Well, there is a dual power.

Speaker 1: 10:48

There isn't there when you start to talk and, as you say, it's difficult for some people because they feel the churn and the tumour but they don't really know what it is necessarily. But when they start to talk it helps them, but then it helps the other people who hear them talking yeah because they get empowered to talk, and I maybe want to bounce from there and weave together a few things.

Speaker 1: 11:10

So, doug, you talked about this idea that pain is going on, and I want to stitch that together with the fact that that the pain in the soul tends to create the same response that we get when we have pain in the body. So, when we've pain in the body, we reach for medication, yeah. When there's pain in the soul, we reach for medication, yeah. But I want to just take a few moments and stitch that idea together with what we're doing here. Right, because, yes, we're recording an episode for a youtube channel, but actually what's going on here is it's a prototype or an example of