The Secret Struggles of Men Revealed

What if societal norms were silently sabotaging men's emotional health? Join us as we unravel the hidden struggles men face, shaped by generational and cultural expectations that demand invulnerability. With Mick sharing his personal journey, we highlight the silent battles men fight against isolation, competition, and the pressure to maintain a facade of strength. Discover how environmental factors like workplace stress and family upbringing play critical roles in this complex issue. Mick offers a poignant look into his upbringing with strong male figures and the immense pressure to never show weakness, providing insight into how these deeply ingrained norms impact men's mental health.

The landscape of masculinity is evolving, and with it, the expectations placed on men. In this episode, we explore the tension between traditional notions of strength and the growing importance of emotional intelligence and well-being. We reflect on the progress men have made in articulating their feelings, yet acknowledge the ongoing challenges in navigating this new dynamic. From sifting through reliable information to fostering emotional awareness, we discuss the steps needed to break down these barriers and support a culture of openness. This is a compelling conversation about redefining masculinity and embracing a more holistic approach to men's mental health.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Gents, anakin, dave, mick, doug, thanks for joining me. We're talking about men's issues. We're discussing all the stuff that men are facing men of all ages, especially middle-aged men. So I want to start off with something pretty broad and then we'll just see where we go. Why are men struggling? We're hearing stories about it. We're hearing about mental health issues. We're hearing about all kinds of battles. Why are our men struggling? Seemingly more than ever?

Speaker 2: 0:27

I think it's probably to some degree. It's just guys don't open up Right, not like women. Women are talkers, right. They connect at a different level, but guys are more jovial around how they interact Right. So trying to sense where someone's at in that can be really difficult.

Speaker 1: 0:46

Yeah, so you're saying the struggle's a silent struggle a lot of the time. Yeah, what do you guys think?

Speaker 3: 0:51

I think the culture we grow up in is adversarial. For guys, right, and we're just taught to view other guys as you know the enemy. Almost Right. You're competing with them. Yes, and I think that naturally creates a sense of isolation. Yes, you never know who you're dealing with, or whether you're actually dealing with the truth or yes, yeah yeah, so well there's.

Speaker 1: 1:13

there's an interconnectedness there, even just between those two thoughts, isn't there? Like if guys are trained by environment or directly, yeah, to be a bit silent, a bit suppressed with their thoughts and then combine that with? You know this, you know we are living in a combative society, especially bigger cities. Commuting is a struggle and cost of living and all this kind of stuff what do you think? Is that an environmental thing? Is it a family history thing? Why are men in that state?

Speaker 4: 1:43

I think it's a bit of both. I think in in sense of like your environment, like your workplace could be, you know, depending on the trade, could be very competitive. I went from, you know, working in a corporate uh environment which is very like cutthroat, came to like may every year. It was like budget time and you either had your job the next day or you didn't. And, um, even like mates I'd work with wouldn't like look at you because they just wanted to get the job done, make sure they had a paycheck the next week. And then family history just you know that's another massive rabbit hole. Just then, in itself, it's just you know people could not have a father, or they have like a distant father, or, you know, had a loving father. Just matters in that sense of the combination of those kind of things.

Speaker 1: 2:26

Yes, yeah, we're off to a flying start. We've got fatherlessness isolation men being adversarial. Mick, what do you want to hit us?

Speaker 5: 2:35

with. Why have you been struggling? Well, from my perspective, I grew up with a father, strong grandfather as well, yep, so I would say I agree with all of that stuff. But the other side, too, is we were taught to be strong. Yeah, okay, you've got to have it all together for your wife, for your family, yes, and in our family as well. We're big on the generations, right, so I've got to have it together for my kids and my kids' kids, so they look up to me, yes. So I would say that can also be an aspect because you want to come across as strong. Yes, I don't want to show weakness, right, and it's been a battle for myself sometimes as well to, okay, I'm one to talk to people that I trust. Sure, a few years ago, getting outside help just from a counsellor to start discussing things and they see things from a different perspective was a challenge for me as well, because you've got to be seen to have it all together, yeah, okay, you've got to be seen to be strong.

Speaker 5: 3:31

Yes, I think that is something men can definitely battle with.

Speaker 1: 3:34

Yeah, absolutely. Now, I know your family, I know it's a strong family, it's a loving family, et cetera. But I wonder, could you dive in a moment to that whole generational expectation? Yep, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but talk to us about ethnicity as well, yep, and culture, yep. What's the tie-in between all of that and why the net result ends up we're a bit locked down, we can't talk properly.

Speaker 5: 3:58

So if I go to my grandfather, he's no longer with us. He came here in the 60s and Italian background, yep, and back then Italian background is you're the provider of the house, you're the man of the house, you're the man of your family. Yeah, okay, okay, and you've got it all together. Even if you don't, you've got it all together. Yeah, right, we're also seen as not being perfect. You do have your flaws. Back then, times were very, I think all of that combines to this man that is. This is that's just the way it is Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, so all the flaws, that's just who we are Right.

Speaker 5: 4:44

Now, myself, two generations later, and you know we've got four or five generations now of Christians as well, and we're very proud of all of that. As the generation has gone on, I believe we have become more open to we've got the flaws. I believe my grandfather also started to recognise that later in his life. Not that he made big changes, but you could see and could sense from himself and his attitude he turned into this man that became so teary all the time and full of emotion, which he never showed when he was younger. So the times changed. You've got to also remember there was war back then. They went through, you know, times were just totally different. He left Italy by himself, left my father and his wife there, for, you know, three to six months came back over on ships Totally different times. Yeah, absolutely. So you have to be strong, you don't?

Speaker 1: 5:37

have a choice.

Speaker 5: 5:40

Now we try to be a bit like that. But times have also changed on the outside of what we're being told. You know, from TV shows, from the news. You know I distance myself a lot sometimes because I can't handle that stuff. Yeah okay.

Speaker 5: 5:57

Because you've got all the emotions going on in yourself of who you should be, who you once were from your father and your grandfather. Yes, and then who am I today? Right, yep, and for my kids it's a lot. My son's being raised in the home the way we want to, but the noises outside the home too, for him is different. Yeah, absolutely, if that all makes sense.

Speaker 1: 6:21

Yeah, totally, there's a lot of layers there, isn't there? Yeah, I want to pick up on that general comment you made there and maybe bounce to you, doug Family history and generations. I think we all know that that has an impact. That's pretty obvious, right? That's a no-brainer. But maybe pick a point there for us, doug how does that shape us? How much does that play into who we think we are and who we think we're expected to be, and all of those perspectives? What's your take on that?

Speaker 3: 6:50

Yes, it's enormous. My father came to Australia in 54 from Germany Right, and it was only sort of in the latter part of his life, when he was 75, he started to open up about how traumatic that was and how devastating.

Speaker 3: 7:06

It was Wow. So he brought all that you know into the family home. So you know, grew up with a, you know, cold, focused father, you know, and high expectations. You know be a man, be strong, you know, don't show tears and that is your norm, you know. For me, that was. This is what life is like, you know, and it was only after I left home and sort of got out into a broader space. It's like hang on a moment. You know, there's actually a different way of showing up and Coupled with, I think we're not actually taught how to be emotional, we're not actually taught how to actually be in touch with or aware of you know I'm feeling something you know we're taught to.

Speaker 3: 7:56

You know, do the job, get a career, be smart, get knowledge. You know be adversarial, be fit, be strong. Yes, and there's this whole raft of our intellect and emotional life and spiritual life which doesn't get attended to in in mainstream culture. Yeah, so you get to middle age, or now I'm sort of approaching the afternoon and and there's there's a lot of catch-up to do Like, even at my age, the amount of reading I'm doing, just getting connected with you know, being an aware human being. You know, being a man in you know the culture that we're living in now, which is very you know. We were talking about podcasts earlier. There's information everywhere and the difficulty we have now is what can you trust?

Speaker 4: 8:49

Who can you trust?

Speaker 3: 8:50

Where am I actually standing? You mentioned before. It's like where am I in the world and how do I relate to what's coming to me?

Speaker 1: 8:56

Yeah, absolutely. There's so many juxtapositions isn't there, you know, as you guys are saying, between be strong but get in touch with your emotions. You know, be stoic but be soft enough for your children. Are we, as men, inventing this in our minds or is this a reality that you know? There's these difficult places to straddle, even as, coming from where our family has been and trying to appropriate that into today's modern world, is it in our head or is it real, dave?

Speaker 2: 9:28

Look, I think it's real. I think it is. I think we are facing a reality. It's a shift in society, if you like. With it, that men are waking up a little bit more and starting to realise that the way things worked isn't necessarily going to be the pathway forward. The way things worked isn't necessarily going to be the pathway forward, and I think what we need is just it only takes a few good men or a few brave guys to start speaking about this stuff. Yes, and all of a sudden, we can see a bit of a shift in men's lives.

Speaker 1: 9:55

Yes, yeah, absolutely. It seems to me that you, you know, as you say, the podcast and there's so much more information out there than before. It seems as though we are doing better, and when I say we, I mean men, I mean middle-aged men, I mean society, but I think we've still got a long way to go on the skill aspect right. So men are starting to talk. I mean, it's not that long ago and I'm old enough to remember this where, if you sat five blokes together on a couch like this and we had a great old chat about our emotions, you know we may have been labelled a few different types of things and people and all the rest of it, because you know there was so much suppression of you shouldn't talk and you can't talk, and why would you talk? And all these kinds of things. But we know the result that that creates and I want to sort of use that to pivot a little bit right.